The Joyfulicity Podcast
Let's face it - in a world full of pain and troubles, couldn't we all use a little (or a lot) more joy? But how do we find it, keep it and share it? We'll dig in on that and explore it together here, on the Joyfulicity podcast. What is Joyfulicity? It's my made-up word for the art of living happy. I'm your host Laura Wakefield, a single mother of 9, certified midlife discovery life coach, writer, travel host and yoga and beach lover. Dedicated to helping others discover and maintain greater peace and personal empowerment. Dare to Dream - Plan to Play - Live to Learn. Here's to living life with a smile.
The Joyfulicity Podcast
Lee Zuniss - Coactive Life Coach & Microdose Guide
My special guest on this episode is Lee Zuniss. Our topic? Psychedelics.
Micro-dosing to be more specific. With all of the celebrities, and now even many mainstream doctors, touting its benefits, I know I was curious to find out what all the fuss was about. So I figured my audience might be as well. Lee unpacks this current, and somewhat controversial, topic with me to explain why macro-dosing isn't necessarily as scary or scandalous as you might think.
Lee is a co-active life coach who holds a calming and happy space for his clients as they look inside to find their own answers.
To learn more visit Lee's website: https://www.leezunisscoaching.com
And follow him on Instagram: / leezunisscoaching
And Facebook: / lee.zuniss
Please like and subscribe here, and also visit my links page to see all of the other places we can connect. This is the hub for more information on my website, my coaching program, the podcast, social media and to subscribe to my newsletter. Hope to see you there soon! https://www.joyfulicity.com/links
Welcome to the Joyful City Podcast. I'm your host, Laura Wakefield, and I'm pleased today to have Lee Zunis on as my guest. Lee and I met originally on Instagram, and he is a certified co-active life coach and microdose guide. And I was curious about all the microdosing stuff because it's something I know absolutely nothing about, other than that quite a few prominent celebrities and podcasters and things have begun talking about it. So I'm very curious to learn more about that. Welcome, Lee to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Laura, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm I'm I'm very excited to be here.
SPEAKER_04:Wonderful. Well, before we get into the microdosing, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your story and how you decided to get into coaching in the first place. Can you tell us your backstory just a little bit?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's fine. I I've been just from people asking me about this and like writing my bio and doing, you know, all the work for my website and stuff, I've been thinking about it. I feel like so. When you ask me that question, I actually go back. I just turned 50 uh a few on Apr on April Fool's Day. Um, and so if I go back to when I was a young child, I grew up in in New Jersey and we we had a we had a house in a garage. And I remember there once one particular moment where I was in the garage, and I was maybe I was I don't know, six or seven years old, and looking back, I realized that I was having a panic attack. But just I don't know, just I didn't know why, I didn't know what was going on. I remember like holding on to the shelf and I remember regulating my breath.
SPEAKER_02:Hmm, interesting.
SPEAKER_01:I just went, I just went there and I just instinctively you kind of knew to do that. I just regulated my breath. I I noticed my breath. I f I followed it and I and I regulated. So I started doing I guess mindfulness breath techniques um from a very early age and not even knowing that I was doing it. And I guess fast forwarding to I'm just gonna give you a little timeline because it all leads up to basically to today where um fast forward to when I was 13, I was diagnosed with uh type 1 diabetes. And from that moment on I had to be extremely um, I would say focused and intentional about my blood sugar and checking my blood sugar eight times a day. And so I had this connection to my body, in particular to my blood sugar levels and also to nutrition and things like that. Um, but I've been so so I was practicing mindfulness in that respect from a very early age, and I didn't have a choice to.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And then so that was just a practice. So I was practicing every day, like when you practice something every day, I became an expert on at least just noticing that connection, right? And then we'll jump forward to maybe about 10 years ago. So let's jump like 30 years or something, um, to a moment when I was in a couples therapist office with my ex-wife, and we decided that we were going to go to couples therapy for um for a year, once a week, just to see if we can. I was, we were both just like, let's do whatever we can to see if we we can make this work. And we did it, and toward the end, there was one session where I was sitting on the couch, my ex-wife was sitting here, therapist was across, and there was a moment where they looked at each other, and then they kind of looked at me, and then they looked at each other again like this exhausted, like they were exhausted by by me and my and my behavior as far as like you me wanting to be right and and like wanting to be right and win the cut and win the argument, whatever what I was there to win and be right, and I'm getting chilled as I'm saying this.
SPEAKER_04:And we've all been in that situation before, I think.
SPEAKER_01:And but this is what I had it, I had so a psychedelic experience is a mind-altering experience. Okay, it doesn't have to necessarily have psychedelics, actual psychedelic medicine or drugs involved. And so, and so in that moment, I somehow was looking at myself through their eyes, and I got and I saw myself and I saw what they were seeing, and I got I freaked out and I got really scared. Like, am I crazy? Am I like what's going on? Like, how how did I not? How am I seeing this? Yeah, how how am I not seeing this behavior? And so I walked out of there. That was an awakening. That was probably one of the first awakenings that I've had where I realized I didn't know necessarily see or know what I was doing all like all the time, right? And from that moment on, I became fascinated with watching my brain and watching my nervous system. And so I just dove in. And that was about 10 years ago, where I just became so focused on my brain and watching my brain that um that was another practice that was sort of like priming me to be, I I knew it was priming me to become a coach. And um, and then throughout the last, I would say 10 years, I've had a few extremely powerful actual psychedelic medicine experiences. One ayahuasca, an ayahuasca ceremony, another one, another, and another a bunch of other different psychedelics that I was experimenting with. And so that was that just opened, that just kind of opened my eyes and shined a light on the power of psychedelics as a medicine and as a therapy. And then after that, it's just sort of like the pandemic happened. We, my wife and I moved, my current wife moved here from New York from to get to Colorado a few months before the pandemic hit.
SPEAKER_04:And and it's time to move to a brand new place where you know no one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Brooklyn, New York, after for 20 years moving to this tiny mountain town with 1,000 people. Yeah, it gave me some time and some room to breathe and to see what was working in my life and what wasn't. And at the time when I moved here, I was I owned a commercial printing company. It was a letterpress company that was running out of Denver. And every morning I would get up and I would dread having to do what I was doing. So I knew that, like, I didn't even want orders to come in because I knew I had to like take care of them. So it took a little while for that pattern to continue where I just said, I am just freaking done. I'm done now. I'm done with this. And then it was a series of events that kind of led me to learning about um coactive coaching, the coactive coaching program. Um, I had a friend that signed up for it, and then I was just like, oh, one of my mantras at the time was to follow my curiosity and to trust it.
SPEAKER_04:I love that.
SPEAKER_01:And so use that as my guide. I used Curiosity as my guide. I signed up for the program. A year and a half later, I was certified. In that time, I just started my practice. I started promoting my practice, I started getting clients. And within that time as well, I took two courses for coaches, therapists, and doctors of incorporating microdosing into their practice. And so it all just sort of unfolded through my practice of curiosity. A few years ago, a friend of mine told me who's a naturopath out of nowhere. She's like, Lee, you're a healer. At first, I was like, What do you, you know, like what are you talking about? Like, I'm I'm a I'm an I'm a businessman, I'm a business person, I'm an entrepreneur. What do you mean I'm a healer? She's like, No, you're a healer. And I I wanted to just my inner critic wanted to say, like, you know, stop it, you know.
SPEAKER_04:That's not right. Yeah, that's not me.
SPEAKER_01:Talk about words of affirmation. I think about that almost on a daily basis, those words. So um, Rachel Meredith, if you're listening to this, thank you so much. I thanked you a million times already, but um but that I'm bringing that up because of the power of words of affirmation.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and she probably had no idea when she said that what impact it was going to have, you know, no idea. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely not. So so here we are today, and uh and now I'm I'm being interviewed on your podcast um for being a life coach specializing in microdosing, yes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, so I'm following my curiosity because so microdosing, there's so many ideas when you hear the word psychedelic, psychedelic, yes, you know, you I mean, if you're not in as knowledgeable as you, a lot of people might think they're thinking uh drugs or uh like the hippies or you know, or whatever myths or preconceived ideas that they have about that. And I've had those thoughts before and ideas about that. And then recently it's becoming much more mainstream. You're even hearing doctors talk about it and and all of this stuff. So I'm putting those things completely aside in my mind now, and I'm here to learn from you. So talk to me about psychedelics, microboxing, what they do, how they work, and why they're helpful to people.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah, they listen, they got a really bad rep in the 50s and 60s, and they were just stepped on by by the government, and now they have re-emerged. There's so much over the past 10 years, but especially the past five years, there's been so much research being done through many programs, including John Hopkins, and it's becoming so clear that this is possibly the most effective medicine when it comes to depression, anxiety, PDSD, addiction. Oh my god, addiction.
SPEAKER_04:It's really see, that's so counterintuitive to myths, you know.
SPEAKER_01:If I look through the lens of not being so deeply emerged in this world, I I could see how it that that that there can be that can be contradictory, but as far as uh toxicity is concerned, especially psilocybin mushrooms, um we have there's a list on a on a website that I use as a resource called the Microdose Institute. And they have a list of different drugs and substances. I think it's like a list of like 30 or 40 different substances. And at the right at the top are um substances like alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and all the way down at the bottom, I think it's like the last, one of the last ones is psilocybin mushrooms. So it's such a gentle, it's the most, it's one of the most powerful yet gentle medicines uh that exists. Basically, what's happening with psychedelics, and I'm just gonna focus on psilocybin mushrooms for our time today. There's a certain part of our brain called the default mode network. Okay, it's a um it's a conglomeration of approximately 30 different parts of the brain. And each part has its own function. But when it's but when those parts are put together, it makes up the default mode network. The default mode network is responsible uh mostly for thinking about the future, the past, ourselves and other people. And that's fine if it that's fine in itself, but when it leads to rumination and obsessive thinking, that's when we get anxious or or or turns out um or or depressed or stressed. So an overactive default mode network. So one of the 30 parts in the in the default mode network is the amygdala. Most people have heard of the amygdala, which is the part of the brain that is responsible um for fight or flight, like when there's an emergency. And we have so that kicks in. But when that kicks in, when there's no emergency, yes, anxiety is rumination, anxiety, obsessive thinking. So what what the psilocybin does, it dampens the unnecessary activity in the default mode network.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And from my personal experience, and also there's plenty of research backing this up, um, that once that gets quiet down, that's ours that what's what's beneath that or behind that, or wherever we want to call it, that's our authentic self. That's where that's where our peace is. That's where our joy, you know, taking away all that obsessive thinking, that's where we can sit and and um and be with ourselves, with I I'm I'll use air quotes with ourselves, whatever that may mean, but um, but I feel like that's where the joy is. Um yeah. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04:Is that absolutely yeah? I've heard of the amygdala, all of this is beginning to finally be talked about more and more. And I think the thing that has attracted me to the idea of it, although I've not tried it at this point in time because of some there's some legality issues still with it, and we can talk about that later. But you know, we we medicate ourselves all the time with substances to do those very things, but they're not natural substances.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And this has been so vilified, but it's actually a natural substance found, you know, organically that our bodies probably know better what to do with than some of the inorganic things that we think of as standard medicine. And that doesn't make sense. So that curiosity's coming up in me that well, why have we made this illegal when XYZ that are just pharmaceuticals are legal and they're doing the same thing?
SPEAKER_05:It really would have control and and and money back back in the 60s. Yeah. Yeah, who had the power?
SPEAKER_01:No, you know, not letting yeah, not not let you know things got a little free thinking can be um a bit uh scary for for the government, for governments, yeah. Yeah, politics.
SPEAKER_05:So um there you go, there you go.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I guess I know that it's even like you said, like mainstream doctors are starting to talk about this now. So it's getting a little bit more general public acceptance, but still, so do you still find people who are quite resistant because of all of the sort of messages that have been sent previously?
SPEAKER_01:I well, yes, I do, but most of the people that I'm that are that are reaching out to me are have done research. Um they've done their research and they're interested. They want to get educated, they want to know best practices. So, yeah, to answer your question, most of the people are somewhat open and ready.
SPEAKER_04:Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01:But if I'm talking to a group of people that are not, everything that we just talked about still lives in people's minds, very much so. Very much so. This is just the beginning. I'm hoping that our conversation, anything that I can do to to help people feel. I mean, listen, it's all I can say is what is what I know, my experiences, my clients' experience experiences, and the research that that's out there.
SPEAKER_04:So you're trained in traditional coaching also.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm a coach. First and foremost, I I'm a cook, I'm a coach. It seems as though I'm I mostly support people as a life coach, um, but I do have some clients that are reaching out to me recently, helping with their businesses as well. Um, but I'm trained to basically coach anything. The microdosing is a tool, it's a very powerful tool, but it's a tool. There are other tools out there that can dampen the overactivity of the default mode network, like exercise, meditation. You know, I got I get a little nervous for doing talks like this. So I prepped myself today by exercising. I we have a sauna on the property. I took a sauna, I took a cold shower, I took a tiny, tiny microdose um a few hours ago, like even less than than like the average microdose than someone would take because I know what it does. Um and I just wanted to be as present as as possible. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I like that that you're saying that it's it's part of sort of a whole toolbox of things that you use as a coach.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Everyone, and people could still work with you for coaching, even if they weren't comfortable with that initially.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. I'd say about, you know, because microdosing is my specialty, um, I'd say about seven, seventy percent of my clients are microdosing and taking advantage of my coaching at the same time. And about 30% straight up coaching. But I'll say it again, I'm a I'm a coach first and foremost. Yeah. My clients that are taking advantage of microdosing, I help them with calibration. The calibrate figuring out your dosage is probably the main, the main thing because it's not like taking a pharmaceutical, like let's say um Adderall or something with psilocybin and any psychedelic. Everybody's different. And it has nothing to do with weight. It has to do with chemistry.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So we spend, we spend at least a probably probably about a month calibrating the dosage, finding out what window, the what window the the dosage is, and then hopefully at the end of, I normally work with my clients for like a minimum of like three months. What they will walk away with is being very comfortable building their relationship with with psilocybin, figuring out what their calibration is so they can so they can do it on their own.
SPEAKER_04:Gotcha. Your goal is to not be needed anymore because they are so knowledgeable in themselves that they can go on with it.
SPEAKER_01:I don't yeah. I mean, if a client finds it helpful to meet with me on a regular basis for I have clients that I've been working with for a year and a half or so, um, like once every, like once a week, one once every two weeks. Um, but it's it's because they find it helpful, because they need me. They just they they just find it helpful. It's like, you know, it's a work, uh sometimes it's a workout working work sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's you know, it's a it's fun to explore and and explore different perspectives and work on the goals, but a lot of times it's like, well, you know, all right, they're they're done. You know, it was a workout. It was a workout. So so yeah. So but but it's all about my uh my coaching is extremely client-centered. Um, it's all about um empowerment. I don't give advice unless I'm really apt to, um, because I do believe that, and this is part of the coactive coaching model, is that uh the client has the answers and the coach has the questions.
SPEAKER_04:I love that. I love that because they do. The only answers that are going to be relevant in their lives going forward will be coming from inside of them. I completely agree with you on that.
SPEAKER_01:That's where the whatever you we want to call it, the authenticity, the truth, the compass. And it's just you know, the compass to make choice to make different choices and continue to move forward and take different actions. But I just create a space and I ask a million questions to get clear on what's important to them. And are those important things, which I refer to as core values, are they being honored or are they being stepped on? And if they're not being honored, there's a very good chance that there's some kind of anxiety or depression or stress happening because we're not honoring the most important things in our lives. And we wonder why we're feeling anxious. I mean, of course it would be. I mean, in like I would say in most cases, for most people, if the most important things are clear and addressed, and then there are actions taken to honor that, mostly the their level of anxiety just goes down a few a few notches for sure.
SPEAKER_04:100%. So for somebody like me, that's that's a microdosing virgin, so to speak, or psychedelics, you know, I've never tried it. And I think that one of the things that would hold me back from trying it is just simply fear of the unknown and not knowing what to expect, you know, like what will happen if I try that? What would you say to somebody like that that was curious, interested in trying it, but was nervous? What can they expect to feel? And what do they what will happen when they try it? Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Perfect sense. So let me first start off by saying that a micro dose is on average one tenth to one-twentieth of a dosage of a macro dose or a tripping dosage where someone is hallucinating. What someone should expect, well, first of all, in the beginning, when I'm teaching them how to calibrate their dosage, we start off at it's such a small dosage that in the beginning, actually almost everyone doesn't even feel anything. And then we increment, we incrementally increase. Um, and that's why it takes about a month or so. Every other day, we incrementally increased. First of all, no one's hallu when you're microdose, you're there are no hallucinate the no one's hallucinating. Okay, I think that's what I would be afraid of, is that I'm not sure. Let me be very clear something, you know. Let me be very clear about that. Oh, you know what's coming to me right now? Okay. Yesterday, uh, I was sitting out in in the morning having coffee with my wife, and we have hummingbirds all over you. And so these two hummingbirds came up face, and this is and they and all of a sudden I look at my wife, she's like so excited. So there's this element of like excitement and and focus. Like in that moment when these hummingbirds were right in front of her face, she wasn't thinking about anything. There were hummingbirds in front of her face, and she her face lit up, and so maybe not that much um of a of an effect, but it's this sense of well-being and uh I'm gonna say joy. Yeah, and because the default mode network is is is becoming less active. We're not thinking about the things that we think about and ruminate all the time. There's quiet, the brain quiets down, the inner critic quiets down, the saboteur quiets down, and you're left with whatever you're left with, you're left with whatever is there. And so there's an element of focus, there's an element of well-being, like this like uh uh element of like sustainable energy.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, and so so just to be very clear, nobody's hallucinating. Um, you know that when you're taking a little bit too much, when maybe you start to feel a little scattered in your brain, or you start to feel a little tired, then we know we're we're probably outside of the window of calibration of dosage.
SPEAKER_05:So you're not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01:That's probably the worst thing.
SPEAKER_04:You know, that's not the goal, right? You're not trying to get high or have psych or have hallucinations. You're just trying to get calm and clear, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01:Calm and clear. Calm and clear. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And no, you're not getting high. This is not a you can't if you if you take more a bit more, um, yeah. And it's it could be it could be quite enjoyable. Um it is quite enjoyable for me. But that's a different thing than the you know, I like to take a little bit more if I'm gonna I I love microdosing and exercising because it's just like it really brings me into the moment.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What microdosing also helps with is doing these things that it makes a it makes the the daily tasks that aren't so they're kind of like redundant or not so enjoyable. It just makes it a little bit more enjoyable, also. But you're not high. You're not high. You can't you you figure out what whatever serves you best, you figure out your window. And then, you know, like for example, this morning, I told you I took probably a tenth of what I would normally take as as a microdose. And, you know, I'm an expert at figuring out now what my dosage is. So I knew, and I also know what's happening in the brain, so I just feel more present.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And kind of happen, and just I'm feeling gratitude for being here with you. Yeah. It's the best I can describe it.
SPEAKER_04:But I wouldn't that's helpful because that dispelled some myths that I maybe had in my mind that if I tried this somehow I would, you know, not be in control of what I was thinking or saying or doing.
SPEAKER_01:You're no, I would say it's the opposite.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's what it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01:I would say it's the opposite of that. So in your coaching, you're more intentional. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I would think it. So in your coaching, people come to you with uh maybe a problem they're trying to solve or whatever you know they're coming to coaching for. It sounds to me like the microdosing, like you said, is a tool, but how does that help somebody to increase the benefit of coaching? Like, like why would you not just stick with traditional coaching and then do this as a completely separate thing? Why, how do those two things wed together well?
SPEAKER_01:Well, microdosing, I'm gonna use the word tool again. So it's a tool to prime my clients to show up. You know, you show up to a coaching session being more present and a quieter mind, and then and then it also opens the heart, so it makes us more vulnerable. Um when the saboteur and the inner critic gets quiet, then we can be a little bit more in touch with what's really happening. So, in a nutshell, I would say my clients show up with a quieter mind and an open heart. What's what's bad about that? You know, I mean, it makes honestly makes my job um easier. It makes the the coaching. Session more efficient for both my client and myself.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:I try and create a space for my clients to be and to share what they want coaching on and to share it from an authentic place, an honest place. And the microdosing helps turn down anything that might get in the way. And so it just cuts through to the to the core. So that's that. I mean, that's why it's so powerful. I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we all have that. You know, you've been saying saboteur, inner critic, all of those things that we all have, all those little voices and all those little pesky thoughts and feelings that are so unhelpful and hold us back from so many things. And we develop those. We pick up more as we go along in our lives. And to be able to sort of just set those aside for a minute and get into what's real. Because those things are not real. They feel very real, but but they are not, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, you you you mentioned that they're not helpful. They they're not helpful today. They were at some point.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:At some point in their lives, they were helpful, um, but not anymore. And we don't want to hate the inner critic or the saboteur because it gives us information. It shines a light on what might need some attention, and it shines a light on these conditioned thoughts and actions that we've been operating with that worked at some at some time, but not now.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Not now. So becoming very clear on that and having a relationship with the inner critic or the saboteur is so important to know when it's showing up. Like you, there's a moment when the, you know, I'm like imagining, like imagining like my inner critic like coming, walking up and stepping, stepping up and coming behind me and just showing up to like protect me. Like a an old friend would like come and help you, you know, back in high school or whatever, but you got into trouble with them for, you know, fru from their help. Also, what what the microdosing does, what the psilocybin does, is it shines a light on what might need attention in our lives. So it's not all about it's not all about focus and I mean, all of the focus and the energy and the feeling of well-being is there. But if someone signs up for like a larger psychedelic experience, they need to know that it's it very well might shine a light on something that might need attention. And then that's where the integration comes in. But if somebody doesn't want to deal with stuff, if somebody doesn't is not ready for that, then don't I recommend not entertaining psychedelics. I mean, even without microdosing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's a little scary in a way to think that things that you've been keeping down for a while would suddenly come up. And you know, if you're not ready, that could be terrifying, I would think.
SPEAKER_01:Um, it could be, but if you're ready, it's a wonderful tool. So, but even in coaching, things can come. Even forget about psychedelics, even with coaching, creating a space and being asked questions, stuff very well could come up also. So most people sign up for coaching and the microdosing because they want to grow, they want to address these things, they want to sort of take a leap off the cliff, knowing that they're in a safe space, though.
SPEAKER_04:Right, exactly. That's the key, is that you create that for them first.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:So important. So, one question I have if this is a something that sort of suppresses the amygdala, I know our amygdala is critical to our survival. You know, without it, we would just be walking in front of traffic. We would, you know, we wouldn't have any sort of basic instincts of self-protection. The microdosing isn't dangerous that way. It does, you know, so tell me about it.
SPEAKER_01:Not at a micro-dose level. No, no. The amygdala, the amygdala and the default mode network is it's stronger than um it's it not at a microdose level. At a macrodose level, then yeah, you are you're in an altered state. You're you that's why it's so important to, you know, um, it's highly recommended to have either like a sitter or um or do it with a therapist or a coach. Um, and and to be very intentional about your your set and setting, your your mindset and the setting are around you and be in a controlled environment. Because usually when people have, I would say, negative experiences, they haven't put thought into their set and setting. Yeah, somebody could very well have a wonderful experience walking around New York City on a very large dosage, but I would not do that. I personally would not do that. Risky. But to answer, but just to be clear regarding your question about microdosing, no. It's um there's nothing, I would say there's nothing to worry about as far as the the important, the important part, uh, the important function of the amygdala and the default mode network. It'll if something if an emergency happens, it'll override any any of the small amount of psilocybin that's in that's in the system.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so you're saying it's safe in the microdose realm. You're not so altered that you're not in control of yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, what if listen, if someone had has a half of a a glass of wine or or something like that, and an emergency happens, they're not, you know, they're it's it's a powerful our our amygdala is freaking powerful.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So um the larger the dosage, the more the amygdala and the default mode when that work is is dampened. So it it's a direct correlation between the dosage and the amount of uh, you know, when someone's ego gets dissolved, that's you're you're talking it's known as a like a heroic dose. Very, very large dosage. You're yeah, you shouldn't be operating any heavy machinery or doing you should just be in your set and setting with guidance and a sitter.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, and you made a good point comparing it to alcohol because there's other things that are pretty mainstream, like like alcohol, that are also the same. Like you shouldn't drink excessively and then be expecting yourself to be in full control. So it's not really that different than things that are already considered pretty normal and accepted.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Just use it wisely, you know, don't make bad choices.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just intention. It's all, you know, I can't express the yeah, when it comes to this kind of work and this kind of medicine, intention is probably I I know experts will say this. Your intention is just as powerful as the medicine. I mean, we know how important we know how important intention is. This medicine is just a tool to accelerate it or enhance it.
SPEAKER_04:All the other stuff out of the way so that you can actually focus on it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Love that. Now I know you mentioned ayahuasca earlier, which is different than the psilocyband, but I've heard again, we're we're myth busting here now, but I've heard that things like that can actually make you feel kind of sick. Is that true of microdosing also? Like stomach's ache.
SPEAKER_01:The larger the dosage, the more you might feel some nausea, and it's just because the stomach is the our digestive system is working to break it down. But there are things you can do for that and and and on a microdose level, actually, I don't think I'm just thinking of back back, maybe like one or two people have experienced ever so slight nausea, and there's something you can do for that, which is you you put the mushrooms in, uh you soak your the mushrooms in lemon juice. And the lemon juice does the job of the digestive system, but it doesn't in advance. It breaks down whatever causes that nausea in advance. So if anyone has an issue with that, um that's one thing you can do that works very effectively. Um, but again, out of the I would say only a few one or two percent of people that microdose will will have will will feel nauseous.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Larger dosage, yeah. A larger dosage, yeah, yeah. It's somewhat common. But but it's common for the first like hours or so, and then once it levels out, um, that starts to go away. It's manageable.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So legality. Talk to me about that. I I I know that it used to be illegal everywhere, any kind of psychedelic substance. That's not true anymore. Where's things where are things at with that?
SPEAKER_01:So this is an interesting topic because the laws are changing like on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right now in the United States, psilocybin, DMT, which is um one of the compounds that go into the brew in an ayahuasca brew, um, along with the ayahuasca vine. So it's DM, so it's it's the leaf and the vine and mescline. Those are decriminalized in Colorado, Oregon, and then scat, and then scattered cities throughout um California. And again, it's changing on a daily basis. So, but mostly, and so and so what decriminalized means is that is legal to possess these three, the one, the three, three psychedelics that I mentioned. It's legal to possess it if you're over 21. It's also legal to gift it to someone if you're over 21 and they're over 21. And that's possession. But in Oregon now, it's it is legal to have a therapeutic psychedelic section with a licensed therapist. So this is where things are going.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And then there are like throughout like scattered in like places like the Netherlands and uh certain areas of Canada and Jamaica, it's perfectly legal. And it's legal to actually grow your own. I've spoken to attorneys about this stuff, and the fact of the matter is that the DA and and law enforcement throughout the country, they're not they're not putting any energy or money into into doing anything in into enforcing this. So that's where that's where we're at right now. And I didn't quite believe that a couple years ago when someone told me about that, but I'm finding that that is that is to be true, that that is to be be the truth. Um so, but still, it is it is illegal in all of the other states that I besides the ones that that that I mentioned.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and and so it you know, it's it's interesting because the more and more doctors that I'm hearing talk about this, and the more you know it's going to change. It's just gonna take a little bit of time. But it's part of a, I think, an overall shift in thinking that people are having more toward holistic remedies in general, like more toward all different kinds of herbs, all different kinds of natural remedies that have literally been around since ancient times. These are not new substances that somebody just created. These have been known about, used, practiced for thousands of years. And thousands of years. Yeah, we put them away and said, Oh, that's bad, that's bad, that's bad during a short period of time. And now they're kind of coming back. And it's just going to take a little time for some spillover to come along, I would think, for people to realize that this doesn't need to be illegal.
SPEAKER_01:It's mind-boggling that alcohol is legal, but and marijuana is now legal, but psilocybin mushrooms, which are so much more safe and gentle and have actual medicinal listen, it's alcohol and marijuana, since I just mentioned those, yes, they do have a medicinal value to them, but they're much more actually, let's just talk alcohol is much more toxic than marijuana and mushrooms. So it's just a matter of time. And just you and I talking about this and having other people listen, um, I'm hoping it's uh destigmatize.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, exactly. And and I can't say that I'm a proponent because I've never tried it. I don't know much about it really. But the little bit that I know, I feel more inclined to let to let people make their decisions and to learn about it. And it doesn't mean everyone's gonna choose that it's right for them. You know, it's not about that. It's about the fact, like you said, that so many things are legal that not everyone approves of. So, you know, everyone doesn't have to approve to allow other people the right to learn about it and make a choice for themselves. And that's what I'm about in in my life. Like I said, I've never tried this stuff, so I can't say it's good or bad or anything else, but but I'm following my curiosity, like you said in the beginning, and and oh yes, letting you tell me about it because you do know about it and I don't, and I and I'm have an open mind to hear what you say. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:Uh 100%, yes. And I I just so many people are benefiting from this medicine. I the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, um he tried to make uh psychedelics uh part of the program because he managed his addiction through psychedelics. So he wanted to be part of part of the original program. Um but i this was in the time, you know, I think this was in the 60s or the 70s, and it just got it just got just stomped on.
SPEAKER_04:Well, because I do think, you know, in so many people's minds, myself included in the past, not so much in recent times, but there's such this image of this completely, like you said earlier, tripped out person going crazy when you hear the word psychedelics, that it's hard to it's it's hard to get that out of people's minds that that's what psychedelics are. Because it can be that if it's misused, you know, but it it it's not that for all of them, you know, perfectly mainstream people that are starting to recognize its benefits, especially in the microdose scene.
SPEAKER_01:I was just gonna say that, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:So I have an one last question for you, but before I ask it, tell everybody if if they've heard some of this and they're, you know, whether they whatever they think about, if they're curious to know more, where can they find you online or elsewhere? Where can they look find more out about you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say the easiest way would be to visit my website, which is leezunascoaching.com. And I have a tab on there to I think I have a tab on there to um to schedule a free consultation. Um but if it's not on there, I do okay. Um and I am I would love I love giving these free consultations. Um some of them turn into a consultation/slash um coaching session. And and so if anyone's gonna sign up for one, um, know that I love doing this. And um and to bring a top bring a coaching topic. Like we're bring something that you'd like to address. Um, and then also um I'm mostly present, I would say, on Instagram at Lee Zunascoaching is the handle, and also Facebook, Leezunas Coaching, and LinkedIn as well. And I'm pretty sure it's Lee Zunas Coaching for that. But I would say reach out through my through my website, which would it would be the easiest.
SPEAKER_04:And that's leezunascoaching.com.
SPEAKER_01:Lee Zunascoaching.com.
SPEAKER_04:And I can tell you, like if anybody not everybody's gonna resonate with the microdosing idea, but I would encourage people, even if that's just not for them, to go follow you on all these platforms because most of your content is so it's just it has it doesn't even have to do with microdosing. It's it's coaching. You're a coach first and foremost, and you just talk about inspirational topics and overcoming different things, and you're so positive and uplifting. I I love your Instagram handle. I I get things from it. Every time I see your posts come through, I get some little nugget inspiration there. So even if somebody is like microdosing, that's too far out for me, I can't still go follow Lee because you will just find so much wisdom and enthusiasm and just zest for life there on his pages. I highly recommend. Um, so that and that brings me to my final question for you. How does all of this, like like take the actual psychedelics out of it? But the idea of opening up your mind and your heart and your soul through whatever means, whether it's psychedelics or exercise or all of those things, how does that help lead somebody toward more joy in their life?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um listen, I I mentioned this before, but I'm gonna mention it again because this is what I've really been focusing on with my clients is figuring out what's in a lot of people, a lot many people don't know, have not put the time or have not had the opportunity, or have not thought about what's literally important to them. So that's the first step. Just what's important, get clear. That's the foundation. And then analyze what are these things being on, are we honoring these things? Are we literally honoring these things? And if we're not, bring awareness to that and take action because I mean things that's how things happen through through action. And I believe that if we're honoring what's important to us and we're in alignment with what's important to us, we are going to feel joy. It's the peace and the joy and the contentment of life. It's I believe it's beneath, it's it's uh beneath, behind, underneath, whatever. It's uh it's it's underneath all that that noise, that rumination, that obsessive thinking that we think about all the time. There's peace under there and there's joy under there.
SPEAKER_04:I love that because it exists within us all the time.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's there. It's it's within us. Absolutely. Yes, I firm, I'm getting goosebumps as I say that. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04:I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. I think that it's been so educational for me. And you know, I apologize if any of my questions were too blunt. I'm just genuinely curious, and I know that the things that I'm wondering and thinking, other people are too. And and you've been so great to kind of share your wisdom and knowledge with us today.
SPEAKER_01:It is my absolute pleasure and honor. I I mean that. I really do.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much. Everybody go follow Lee. Lee Zoom is coaching. You won't regret it, and have a great day, everybody.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for joining me today on the Joy Felicity Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and share, and come follow me on all major social media sites at JoyFelicity or on my website, joyfelicity.com. You can follow the link in the description for this episode to all of the places that we can connect. Have a great day, everybody, and remember dare to dream, plan to play, live to learn.
