The Joyfulicity Podcast
Let's face it - in a world full of pain and troubles, couldn't we all use a little (or a lot) more joy? But how do we find it, keep it and share it? We'll dig in on that and explore it together here, on the Joyfulicity podcast. What is Joyfulicity? It's my made-up word for the art of living happy. I'm your host Laura Wakefield, a single mother of 9, certified midlife discovery life coach, writer, travel host and yoga and beach lover. Dedicated to helping others discover and maintain greater peace and personal empowerment. Dare to Dream - Plan to Play - Live to Learn. Here's to living life with a smile.
The Joyfulicity Podcast
Cindy Bell - Coach, Podcast Host, and Author of "What the Fifty."
My guest on this episode is my dear friend of over 30 years, Cindy Bell. She is a life coach, realtor, podcaster, and the author of "What the Fifty - a Girl's Guide to Unapologetic Living Over 50." Cindy approaches the topic of aging with honesty and humor - through her wisdom, anecdotes, and personal stories. She's a powerhouse personality and a warm, kind person. So excited to share our conversation with you.
Check out my Amazon affiliate link to BUY HER BOOK - "What the Fifty?"
Follow Cindy on Instagram @what.the.fifty.cindybell
Hi everybody. Welcome to The Joy fulicity Podcast. I'm your host, Laura Wakefield and today I am thrilled to have my good friend Cindy Bell on the show with me. Cindy and I have known each other for about 30 years. We went to college together way back in the day and then we lost touch for a little while and reconnected a few years ago only to discover that our lives had taken a very similar track. We're both realtors, we're both life coaches, we both have big families. We basically lived parallel lives for all of those years. So it's been super fun to reconnect with Cindy. And she has done what I've talked about for years. And she has published a book called "What the Fifty?" dishing all things to do with life after 50. So welcome, Cindy. It's good to have you.
Cindy Bell:Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Laura Wakefield:It's wonderful. So tell me about... your book? What made you go from the point of, Hey, I have a lot to say to, I think I'm going to write a book about it. Like, tell me about that.
Cindy Bell:I don't really know. I just, I just like, I came up with the phrase, what the fifty, um, a few years ago, uh, right after I'm 56 now. So, um, I kind of went through this point in my life when I was about 50, where I went through a huge transition. I got a divorce, not just a divorce, but my second divorce. And it was like a huge, huge thing for me to kind of accept. And I'm like, embraced the whole turning 50 moment as a huge transitional pivotal time in my life. And I wanted to call it something like it needed, I needed to kind of label this whole experience. And then in sharing with other women, my age, similar age, um, I wanted to have like a brand sort of a feel like, and so it was like, what the 50, so kind of a play on what the f***5 you know?
Laura Wakefield:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Which is how it feels for most of us. When we turn 50, there's that moment where we look in the mirror and we go, how did this happen? How did I, how did I get here? You know.
Cindy Bell:That's what I was trying to capture. Like the whole, what is happening to me physically, hormonally, mentally, everything in my life is changing. Nothing looks the same, both figuratively and literally. And I kind of wanted to capture that with What the Fifty, and the book is just sort of a, a compilation of personal stories. It's kind of like coaching slash personal humorous moments slash serious stuff. I mean, it's just kind of a weird arrangement of my thoughts.
Laura Wakefield:Well, what I love about your book, because I've read it and I love it because I'm also in my 50s, so it resonated a lot with me. And I think that it will with most women in their 50s, men too, but I think it's primarily written for the female experience of what that feels like to be in your 50's as a woman. You are just so relateable. Like, you do share stories and a lot of humor, because I think we tend to take this all very seriously.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:Our bodies are changing. Our lives are changing and it feels very heavy and very serious and you just put a lot of humor into it. That we may as well laugh about this stuff, because it's happening.
Cindy Bell:Right. Well, I'm pretty sarcastic, and it's just kind of one of my defaults. My love language may be sarcasm. So I just find humor in a lot of things, and I think if you're not laughing and having fun, what's the point, right?
Laura Wakefield:Exactly. And I think that they call it a midlife crisis, but I don't like that term, because that has a negative connotation. I kind of like midlife discovery period, but it can be very traumatic experience.
Cindy Bell:Yes
Laura Wakefield:You know because you have to rethink everything you ever thought that you knew and often there are divorces and things like that that are happening at this age that's not uncommon so...
Cindy Bell:Yes we find ourselves in a position where we're kind of having to redefine and re-navigate what life looks like because like you said divorce it's you know unfortunately it's pretty common and um we're kind of in the middle like we're suddenly empty nesting. You're not quite there yet, but you're getting there. You have nine, so it's taking you a little bit longer.
Laura Wakefield:I'm a little behind the curve on that one, but yeah, it'll happen though.
Cindy Bell:It will. Yeah. So we're empty nesting. Our parents are aging. Our parents are dying, you know, and suddenly we're left single or divorced or, you know, in new relationships. And so everything looks different and we have to figure out how do we do life now? As women, we know so much more. We have so much experience and knowledge, things that we've learned along the way, but everything's different. How do we move through this? I like what you said. It's more of a discovery, not a crisis, although it can be a crisis.
Laura Wakefield:It's going to be as traumatic as what our mindset is about it. That's why I love books like yours because it starts to challenge whether or not that mindset needs to be negative or not.
Cindy Bell:Right.
Laura Wakefield:You Know, because everything in society tells us that this is a horrible thing. You know, we're getting old and getting old is not good. You know, we don't look 20 anymore. We, you know, and we're supposed to somehow be ashamed of that and try to, you know, fight that. And it's happening. Whether we fight it or not, it's happening.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, we have not been given permission by society, not that we need it, but to age gracefully. Men have permission to do so, but we don't. We're expected to color our hair. We're expected to fight aging, fight our wrinkles, and stay in shape and stay thin. And I'm all for all of that. I fight aging. I will continue to fight it as much as I can. However, sometimes I just want to breathe. I just want to be like, screw this. I'm 56 years old. I can't look 35. I just, I can't, and I'm not going to. I'll do the best I can for as long as I can. But if we put, let's say like the medical field, if they put as much energy toward figuring out menopause and how to help women through menopause as they did making Viagra for men, we would have made a lot of strides. We're getting there.
Laura Wakefield:Oh, and I think that it's about, like you said, I mean, I'm about trying to look the best that I can at whatever age that I'm at. What I don't want anymore, though, is to feel the shame because on my best day, I'm not going to look 20 anymore. I can look awesome for 54, but I'm 54 and I'm never going to look 20 and that's okay. You know, that's all right. And that's where I want to get within my own self. But I'd like to see society get there, because I know there's so many women our age that are just suffering.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:All these things to do with aging. And it's going to happen whether we suffer or whether we find the humor in it. It's not about whether color your hair or don't. You know, that's a personal choice for people to make. But let's not be ashamed when we look in the mirror and don't look 25 as if somehow our worth and our value as a woman is diminished.
Cindy Bell:Exactly.
Laura Wakefield:We're powerful. In fact, a lot of people are talking now, and I love your take on this, that people our age in their 50s now are aging differently. What do you think about that when you hear that? Because I think it's true.
Cindy Bell:I think it's true. Yeah. Because when we were kids, I would think of a woman in her fifties. The, the image that came to me back then was short gray hair.
Laura Wakefield:Always
Cindy Bell:Retired. And, you know, they reading the newspaper every morning, drinking her coffee there. It's just like sort of a, we are aging differently. I mean, we are taking our power back. We are taking control of ourselves and how we age. And I think that, That's a really, really good thing. But maybe we've also created these false expectations for ourselves to look a certain way. I mean, look, you've had nine children. I've had five children. The body just does certain things after it's out there.
Laura Wakefield:It will never be the same.
Cindy Bell:I mean, and why are we trying to, not that we get sloppy or complacent, but why are we trying to look like we have not birthed multiple human beings?
Laura Wakefield:Because no matter how hard you try, you can't fully fight that. No. It's just, it's never going to look the same again entirely as it once did. And I think that's okay. It's really okay. You know, I think what it's about is having that personal power to choose to look how we want to and how we do and to love our body where it's at, right? Even if we're trying to make positive changes, like right now, I would love to lose another 20 to 30 pounds, right? And that's all right to want to do that. But I need to love myself now while I'm in the process of that. Yes. I will love myself when I'm 30 pounds thinner and look 25 again. No, now, right now.
Cindy Bell:Right. And it's our job to teach society, to teach others how to treat us. I mean, I scroll through Instagram or TikTok and older women, we have a big platform on social media. Like we take up a lot of space. Like it's a big thing. Women over 50, it's a big demographic on social media. But there are so many men, trolls on there, who are saying, oh my God, you look terrible. Put a paper bag on your head or color your hair, or you need to lose some weight. All these comments and it's constant. It's our job to redefine the narrative and to shift the narrative and to allow others to see us differently, because we have to come forth as being powerful. We have to love ourselves so damn much that everyone else looks at us and goes, yeah.
Laura Wakefield:Well, that's why I think it's so important. People like you who are writing books about this and running your Facebook page, that sort of thing, because there's so many sources, like you said, trolls, but but other sources, too, that are telling us that we don't have as much value anymore. And it's so important to have women out there speaking out and reminding each other. Yes, you do. Yeah, we are powerful. We are. We're powerful because we because we're not 20. And that's the important part. I wouldn't want to go back to 20. I didn't know anything when I was 20. I did everything. I mean, I didn't know anything. I had no life experience. And so all of the things that we've been through that some of them are difficult, some of them are wonderful, but they all have shaped us and informed us. And that's why we're powerful.
Cindy Bell:Yes, exactly.
Laura Wakefield:You know, so these wrinkles mean something to me.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, they do. Definitely. Yes.
Laura Wakefield:So tell me about the core four.
Cindy Bell:So the core four, basically there's four pillars and there's more than that. If you can actually have sub pillars within these four pillars, but it's your physical, your spiritual, relational, and financial. So these four areas in my coaching program, I don't know what you do in yours, but in my personal coaching program, I coach people on these four areas. Like, how's your physical? How's your relational? How's your spiritual? How's your financial? And like I said, there could be sub pillars, but those are the basic four that we concentrate on. And setting goals for yourself within each one, you know, taking a hard look, a hard inventory of where you are and where you want to be. And then breaking it down within each of those four areas.
Laura Wakefield:Well, I have found too, when one is a little off kilter, often it's throwing the others off kilter too. So if you can regain some strength in one area to where you feel powerful again, it will spill over into the other areas too. Do you find that with your clients?
Cindy Bell:So true. And for most of them, actually, it's the physical that if they feel good about themselves, you know, they're taking care of their health, they're feeling good, then that spills into most of the other areas. That's not for all of them, but for most of them. And for myself.
Laura Wakefield:And whatever that looks like for them, you know, but that they feel, I think for me right now, the reason that I'm kind of really tackling this last little bit of weight loss, it's not really so much for appearance. I mean, it is because, you know, I'm going to be on camera, all of that sort of thing. But it's more than that. It's more... That I feel like that's one area where I don't have... I'm not at my best. And it's very empowering to me to think of taking control of that again and getting it back. Because I think that that sense of empowerment is where your confidence comes in all other areas of your life.
Cindy Bell:Yes, for sure.
Laura Wakefield:How do you teach people to... Where do you tell people to start if they're feeling out of control everywhere?
Cindy Bell:Well, I have them take a hard look at... we determine their current reality. So they have to get super clear and very, very real. You know, a lot of people just want to pretend and frankly lie about their current situation because it's too hard to look at otherwise. But let's, let's be clear when you're in your fifties, you, you better get your shit together. You know, you better know what you want. But more importantly, know where you are right now, because you can't get to where you want to go without really getting super clear on where you are.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah.
Cindy Bell:So taking a fierce inventory of where you are in every single area of your life and then saying, okay, it's okay. It's okay if you feel like you need to lose 80 pounds. That's okay. How are we going to tackle this? How can we get from here to where you want to be and then take actionable steps to make it happen? So it's all about getting very raw. and very real with yourself and say, okay, here it is. No
Laura Wakefield:Which is hard. I mean, that's painful sometimes.
Cindy Bell:It is.
Laura Wakefield:And running away from a reality, you know, maybe not saving what you should for retirement, for instance, and trying to just stay in denial about the fact that we're now in our mid-50s and we don't have that much time. Yes. To really confront that can actually be a little terrifying at first. It can be kind of very upsetting. But it's
Cindy Bell:Yeah. So for a woman in her fifties, she finds herself suddenly in a financial situation that she's like, how am I going to get out of this? I need some money. It's very important to look at that and go, okay, let's, let's figure it out. There's a way out of this. Let's take some steps to make it happen. And it's not sexy. This is not sexy stuff. Like this is hardcore accountability and action and, Because like you said, we don't have, not that we're in our deathbeds, but we don't have that much left, that much time.
Laura Wakefield:We don't have as much time as we used to, you know, for sure. Well, and that's where I think you as a coach come in. So, you know, have so much importance and value is that accountability. Because that person left to their own devices is going to revert back to their habits.
Cindy Bell:Totally.
Laura Wakefield:The minute it feels uncomfortable, they're going to revert back to all of the different comfort mechanisms that they have in place in their life to hide from that. That's what they've been doing for years. And so to have somebody that keeps bringing it back and saying, okay, wait, wait, wait, come back, come back, look at this again.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield:Super, super important. I love that. Okay, so I'm going in highlights of my favorite parts of your book. This chapter was probably my favorite one. And maybe because this is something that I do myself a lot. So it was very, it highlighted some stuff for me. Stop half-assing your life. Yeah, that one got to me. Talk to me about that chapter.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, I mean, it got to me too, because I'm preaching to the choir and so much of this book is stop half-assing your life. I know for me, I found that I can do most things pretty well. And I can operate about 75% of my capacity and kind of skate, you know, kind of coast through, but that's half-assing it. Right? I mean, you make a decision when you wake up every day, am I going to be like excellent today in as in many areas as I can, or I'm going to half-ass it? I mean, it's up to you. If you like half-assing your life, go for it. I mean, I'm not here to shame anybody into, into a certain way of living, but if, if you're aware that you're half-assing your life and you want it to change, then maybe you just need to admit, I'm half-assing my life. Let's do something different, right?
Laura Wakefield:Well, once you admit that to yourself, it's hard to run away from the accountability at that point.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Wakefield:Because you know it. And I think that one of the things that causes me to do that, sometimes it's laziness. I mean, that's the truth. Sometimes I just don't feel it. But sometimes I'm actually afraid of what it would mean if I gave it my all. Like, not just that somebody would reject me, but maybe it would really go well. And if it does, then I have responsibility for all of the things that might come from that. And that overwhelms me a little. So if I can just stay over here half-assing, then I don't have to deal with all of that.
Cindy Bell:Absolutely. And look at us, you know, we're both on this very similar trajectory and we're doing very creative things in this time of our lives. And it's a blessing, but it's also kind of a curse because what if this goes really, really well? It's scary. Like, what if my podcast starts reaching millions? Or what if my coaching program starts making six figures, multiple six figures? Like, then what? What if my social media blows up completely? You know, then what? It's safer, right? Definitely and more comfortable to stay here.
Laura Wakefield:Well, and what will that require of me?
Cindy Bell:Right.
Laura Wakefield:Like if I put out the best of myself, sure there's the chance of being rejected, but I'm almost more comfortable with that.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:Weirdly than I am with, but like you said, what if it blows up and it gets huge? And what will that look like? Well, how will my life change?
Cindy Bell:Well, you know, the more things blow up and go well, the more people you connect with, but that also means the more criticism you are definitely going to get. And that's hard, right? So it is safer to not do anything at all or to play really small. And I'm kind of stuck sometimes, to be totally honest with you, I'm kind of stuck sometimes between this, go get it, go after it, play big, play hard. And screw it. I'm 56. I don't have to do anything I don't want to do.
Laura Wakefield:Maybe I should start slowing my life down now. Yes. I think we flip flop back and forth. And I think we're also dealing with the societal things that, especially in our generation, not so much the younger women, but women in our generation have kind of been told for a long time that maybe we should play small, that we have certain roles to play. And maybe we're out of our lane if we really reach big and try to, and it's a very ingrained idea that somehow we're not being feminine anymore or we're not being a good wife or mom if we're really reaching hard for our personal dreams. And I think a lot of us fight against those little inner demons.
Cindy Bell:Oh yeah. But especially Laura, let's be honest, people like you and me who we've, we've kind of been trained, taught and educated through this religious system that we both came through. And I don't know how much you want to get into this.
Laura Wakefield:We can talk about anything here. Yeah. Cindy and I both used to be in the Mormon church and actually we met at BYU and we both have since left the Mormon church, but that is a huge part of both of our history.
Cindy Bell:Yeah. Yes. So we have that common thread and that we were taught. I mean, even if it was just sort of, what's the word I'm looking for? Not directly. Definitely. We caught this indirectly, but it was pretty direct that women are, we have an inferior role. And so basically our voices do not matter nearly as much as our male counterparts.
Laura Wakefield:Like, I don't know that I ever saw myself as inferior so much as that my role was pretty defined and pretty specific, so to reach outside of that was kind of just, you know, getting out of my lane. It was not...
Cindy Bell:This is where you belong over here.
Laura Wakefield:Exactly. And it was valuable. I felt like it was valuable and all of that, but it was very defined. And so if I had bigger ideas than that, that somehow I just wasn't being faithful or contented.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:You know, and, and I guess I wasn't fully contented. To be totally truthful, that wasn't enough for me. And I wanted more, but I still fight against that thinking that I need to...
Cindy Bell:Yeah, tamp it down, Laura. Laura, calm down.
Laura Wakefield:Be smaller. Yeah, exactly.
Cindy Bell:Don't be too loud.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah, don't be too big. But I have a really big personality and that's been something that I do that flip-flopping of, oh, you need to... be here and no, I'm going to be over here. And, and that's a huge internal conflict that I wrestle with when I'm doing something like starting a podcast. How, how, how much am I allowed to be here? Yeah. It's like, how loud can I be here?
Cindy Bell:Exactly. Like, do I really belong in this space of, Oh, right. These people over here are the ones who do podcasts. Not me.
Laura Wakefield:Not me. I'm just a mom.
Cindy Bell:Right. How silly. Oh, I was being silly. Oh yeah. I mean, but you know, I think that that is really common, like you said, for women our age to be constantly doing this one voice here and one voice here, and we're constantly at battle. I do see younger women, though, in their 20s, 30s, even 40s, who don't even have this conversation going on in their head.
Laura Wakefield:They're released from it entirely.
Cindy Bell:Entirely. Yes. So I think it's very normal for women our age, but I think that we need to, that all the more reason that we need to keep, we need to keep speaking. We need to keep standing up and saying the things that matter and that are not to be obnoxious or anything, but just to say, Hey, we're here. We're not going away. Like on TikTok, we're, we're here on TikTok.
Laura Wakefield:So get used to it. We're here.
Cindy Bell:And my kids are like...
Laura Wakefield:Oh, Cindy has the most hilarious TikTok feeds. I love your posts on TikTok because they're so relatable. You'll say the stuff that other people are thinking. What's your, tell everybody what your TikTok handle is so they can find you.
Cindy Bell:I think right now, because I try to, because I'm a realtor as well. So it's @CindyBell sells. And so it's like, I really don't like that handle. I'm thinking about changing it, but yeah. That's a whole nother thing we need to talk about branding. Like, who are we? Are we just one brand? And then all these different things that we do underneath the brand, because we're realtors, we're coaches, we're podcasters, we're moms, like we're multifaceted. So anyway, you can find me on TikTok @Cindy Bell Sells, but I love TikTok because it is the place I can be the most authentic version of myself. And it freaks my husband out. He's like, God...
Laura Wakefield:Who are you?
Cindy Bell:And I'm like, I just feel free.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah, like, I found that too. So when I was on all the other social medias for a long time, and I resisted TikTok, because it felt kind of silly.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:Because you are silly on there, you just you act out and you do these crazy videos and all this kind of stuff. I have found TikTok to be the most freeing of all the social medias. And I don't know what's about to happen with all of that. I won't get into that about all of that right now. But But just to learn how to be that open about that silly side of myself has been very freeing for me. And I really enjoyed that. And it's spilling over into the rest of my social medias and my life. And when you were talking about branding, I think for a long time with branding, I thought I had to put myself out there as a realtor, like put the real estate first or the coaching first and then hide myself a little bit back behind those professional titles and labels. And I'm starting to mix all that together now and realize that my brand is really me. And that is really uncomfortable for me, to be totally honest. It's something I'm stepping into a little bit, but it's uncomfortable. And I think that's true of every woman, whether she's doing podcasting or not. Your personal brand is you and your authenticity and your uniqueness and everything that makes you you. And don't be afraid of that.
Cindy Bell:Absolutely. And I have found the more authentic I am, as uncomfortable as that is, I attract the people that are really supposed to be in my life.
Laura Wakefield:Yes.
Cindy Bell:And, and that's just, you know, I don't want to be connected to people who don't want to be connected to me. So might as well just be ourselves, whether it's on social media or in real life with real people face to face, just be you and let the chips fall where they may. And let the people who are not supposed to be in your life, not be in your life.
Laura Wakefield:And that it's actually a blessing that they exited.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:You know, and that's hard to come to until you're kind of really comfortable with who you are.
Cindy Bell:Oh my gosh. I can't tell you. I don't know if you can relate to this, but I'm thinking about all the toxic relationships that I've had throughout my life.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah.
Cindy Bell:Even just friendships, casual friendships that were toxic because those people were not my people. Yet I was trying to make those people, my people. I'm like, I don't have, I don't have time for that anymore. I only have time for real authentic relationships.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah. Because what you get, what I've, it took me till my fifties to learn this. I didn't know this in my twenties that if you curate yourself to please someone else and are not showing up as you, all you're going to have at the end of that i s a relationship where you have to be something you're not, and you're never going to be comfortable there. You're never going to be happy there.
Cindy Bell:No. That was, you know, one thing, my upbringing in the Mormon church really kind of defined me in this space that I was taught in no uncertain terms that it was my responsibility to show up as the woman that a man might need. to be his eternal companion, to be his faithful. So I kind of, you know, did these gymnastics of turning myself inside out to be that perfect woman that a man would want to marry. And it's like, I totally lost who I was. And it really wasn't until my 50s, early 50s, where I said, who am I? What do I believe? What do I stand for? What are my opinions? And it turned out that I actually did not have any of the same opinions as my ex-husband at all. I actually had my own personal thoughts and opinions. And that was like, whoa.
Laura Wakefield:And then you're like, well, now I kind of know why that didn't work. How could it ever have worked when... we weren't showing up as ourselves. And I think that idea that there's a set way to be so that you are lovable so that people will want you is really false. There's billions of people on this planet.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:So you only need one really in terms of, of a romantic relationship and you don't need that many friends even. And you know, you don't need a massive tribe. So be you. There are plenty of people out there that will want you. And like you said, for you and then you'll just live a more comfortable life you know I mean that's that's something I'm learning but that's a hard one to learn. Being rejected still feels uncomfortable for me because, because it's not so much that I'm sad about those people exiting as I still attribute something's wrong with me if somebody didn't like me or want me or approve of me, so I still do that little thing where I catch inside a little and think that they're correct.
Cindy Bell:Right but you know we actually have the power and the freedom to get rid of people in our lives that we know don't belong, like maybe we're the ones that get to make the decisions you belong in my life you don't belong in my life whereas we were giving everyone else the power to determine that before.
Laura Wakefield:Well and at what level do you belong in my life, like there's people that are fine at the acquaintance level. But, you know, only certain people move to the next tier of, you know, of intimacy, so to speak, where we share our real feelings with that, you know, like these people are on this layer of our life. And then there's these like layers into the core. And sometimes I gave all that emotion and power to all of these people, really only this person had really earned the right to be that close to me.
Cindy Bell:And that's really a boundary issue, isn't it? I mean, it's all about boundaries.
Laura Wakefield:And it's not about putting walls up. It's more about self esteem boundaries. Yeah.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield:Well, that kind of comes to this next chapter in your book that I love, Take Your Sorries Back.
Cindy Bell:Oh, this is like one of my favorite topics.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah. So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell:So I found myself my entire life apologizing for everything, whether it was like specifically saying, oh, I'm sorry, or just my behavior said, I'm sorry, right? Because I felt like I was responsible for everything that went wrong in my world. And so if it was my responsibility, I need to apologize, and then try to make it right. So I decided, I think it was 2020 or 2021. I said, I'm going to take my sorries back. And it was just this visual for me. I'm taking my sorries back, taking it back. So now when I apologize, of course, we should apologize when we wrong somebody. Of course, we should apologize when we're in the wrong. But there are a lot of times where we don't need to apologize. And we can say, instead of, oh, sorry, we can say, thank you for your patience. Or I appreciate your willingness to, you know, dot, dot, dot, fill in the blank. There are more creative ways we can use our language and our behavior than being overly apologetic.
Laura Wakefield:Because words matter.
Cindy Bell:Words do matter.
Laura Wakefield:They matter.
Cindy Bell:Yeah. Very much. And so we weaken our stance as human beings when we're always apologizing for everything. Not everything's our fault. Some things we... can put out here and go, that's your issue. I'm not owning any part of that.
Laura Wakefield:Well, and I think too, like it almost becomes reflexive. Like, you know, you say something about how you feel about something that's totally valid because it's my feelings. So I'm allowed to feel that. And somebody doesn't like it. Again, you can't force them to like it, but you don't have to be apologetic that that's how you felt and what you thought.
Cindy Bell:Right. That's right.
Laura Wakefield:So another way to, you know, find a way to reword that. Well, I can see that we have a different opinion about this and I respect your opinion.
Cindy Bell:Yes. Or, I mean, I have a girlfriend, she's my age and we're very, very close, but she apologizes every time we're talking. Before she shares an opinion or a thought, she said she apologizes for it ahead of time.
Laura Wakefield:Oh, gosh.
Cindy Bell:I'm like, stop. doing that, but it's so reflexive and so naturally ingrained in her to do that. I don't even think she realizes she's doing it. And it's something that a lot of women our age carry with us. We don't realize we're doing it and we don't realize how disempowering it can be. So it's just something to think about.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah, very much so because every time that we apologize, and of course, like you said, if we've actually done something wrong, an apology is in order and we need to do that. But when we apologize over every little thing, you know, I'm sorry, that I shouldn't have said that. Or I'm sorry that you feel that way about me. Or all of us, we're sending ourselves a message constantly that we're bad or that we're wrong or that we somehow are responsible for everything and every interaction. And we're not, I even say things like, oh, I'm sorry, I have to hang up the phone now. Like, just say it differently. Just say, I really need to get going. Can we talk again tomorrow?
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:Take the sorry out of it.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:You know, you're not doing anything wrong. I love that. And kind of going along with that was the other, the other one, no is a complete sentence. We tend to say no. And then I feel like I have to, I do this all the time. So that one made me laugh, because I still do this, but I'll say no. And then I'll feel like I need to give this extensive explanation justifying why I said no. So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell:Oh my gosh. Same. I just couldn't say no.
Laura Wakefield:Right.
Cindy Bell:Because no might hurt somebody's feelings. Right? So I have to like massage it and make it really palatable for whoever's hearing the no. And it's still hard, like you. No, I'm not able to do that right now. That's okay. Men do this all the time. Men do not typically feel the need to explain their no.
Laura Wakefield:Well, the problem that I see with the way that I do it, typically I'm trying to get better, is it's not really a no. Because I'll say no and then I'll start explaining. And sort of like if you go to a car dealership and say no, they'll try to, you're leaving the door open for them to convince you that your no isn't really a no. And it becomes almost a negotiation.
Cindy Bell:Yeah.
Laura Wakefield:Because I'm still explaining and still talking, there's still room for that to be turned into a yes. And very often, because I'm a pleaser, I will allow it to be. I'll say, no, I cannot do that. And then before I know it, not only am I doing that, but I'm also on the committee for this other thing. And now I'm doing three times as much as what I said no to. And I do that all the time. I think women do that.
Cindy Bell:And then we're resentful because we're suddenly involved in all these things we don't want to be involved in. It's like, I still find myself in the situation over, over committed in things I don't want to be committed to. Like I'll agree to a, I'll agree to a lunch date that I really have no desire to attend.
Laura Wakefield:Right.
Cindy Bell:Why did I agree to it? No, I'm not going to be able to do that. And you know..
Laura Wakefield:Even, you know, on another deeper level, sometimes we'll continue romantic relationships that really aren't serving us because we're too afraid to hurt someone's feelings or friendships or whatever it is. But I'm learning that if you don't really want to be there, then that's not actually fair to them. Like you may not have hurt their feelings on the surface, but you're kind of dooming them to stay in a relationship that's with someone that doesn't really love them.
Cindy Bell:Yes.
Laura Wakefield:You're not always being nice.
Cindy Bell:Right.
Laura Wakefield:To try to, you know, pacify.
Cindy Bell:It's really about clearly communicating our intentions and our desires to other people. And knowing that it's okay to make my intentions very clear. And it doesn't mean you're a bitch. That means you are just a woman with clarity.
Laura Wakefield:People, once they're used to that, like if you haven't been that way, showing up that way in your life before, it might rebuff some people at first because they don't, they're not used to that side of you. But once they are and people that meet you in that confident space, because again, it's not about being bitchy. You're not being mean to say, no, I'm sorry, I'm not able to do that. Yeah. It's not. And if you don't come at it like you think you're being mean and all apologetic, it's just very matter of fact, there's not a whole lot that anyone can say to that. If you just flat out say no, I'm sorry, I can't do that. Or you don't even have to say sorry. How do we say that, Cindy? How do we take the sorry out?
Cindy Bell:No, thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate the request. No, thank you. I won't be able to do that. I mean, I don't know. I think it's a mindful thing. You have to remind yourself, don't say sorry. Don't say I'm sorry.
Laura Wakefield:Yeah.
Cindy Bell:The flip side to this whole no is a complete sentence, and I wrote about this in my book too, is that yes, I've had to relearn how to say yes, because I was saying no to my kids so often. I say no to my immediate family, the ones I love the most, but I say yes to the entire world. How screwed up is that? That's backwards. So now I'm learning to say yes to my family, the people I love the most, and saying no to the outside world.
Laura Wakefield:I think too saying yes to you and the things that matter to you also can be put on the table as things that you're allowed to say yes to, even if it means you're not going to be there to be on that committee.
Cindy Bell:That's right.
Laura Wakefield:You know, no, I'm sorry. I can't do that. I'm going to be doing my own thing, like that sounds really uncomfortable, but it's valid.
Cindy Bell:One thing for me, my workout time is sacred. Like that is when I need that time, not just physically, but mentally. And I have found so many times I've kind of bended, you know, bent, allowed other things to take. But now I'm like, nope, this is my workout time. No to everything else, basically, because it's me. It's yes to me. So, yeah.
Laura Wakefield:And knowing that that fills you up and is really important to your own mental health and physical health and all of that stuff. When you say yes to that, you're actually going to be able to show up as a much more stronger, more powerful, energetic, present person to the other things that you say yes to. And I find when I say no to myself and all the things that feed me, I'm showing up. That's when I tend to start half-assing.
Cindy Bell:Yeah.
Laura Wakefield:Everywhere. Because I'm not fed. I'm not grounded. I'm, you know, I'm not taking care of myself.
Cindy Bell:For sure.
Laura Wakefield:So it's not selfish at all. Okay, Cindy, I have one more question for you. But before I do, tell everybody how they find you. How do we find Cindy Bell?
Cindy Bell:My website is being revamped, but it is, I think it's cindybellcoaching.com, but I'm not sure it's running at this particular time, but you can also find me on social media, Facebook, Cindy Bell, Instagram. Actually, it's funny. We talked about this. I have two Instagram accounts, but I'm thinking about merging them into one brand, but it's whatthe50. You can find me whatthe50 on Instagram and then TikTok Cindy Bell sells. But yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. But cindybellcoaching.com. I think that would be that's my website.
Laura Wakefield:And I'll put links to all of that and to your book in the description for this interview. So my last question for you, because the basis of this podcast is talking about living joyful living.
Cindy Bell:Yeah.
Laura Wakefield:Is that possible for women after 50? Is there life after 50 that's full of happiness and full of joy? It's not just a steady downhill after 50. Talk to me about joyful living after 50.
Cindy Bell:Oh, I love that question. It is definitely possible. And it is not only possible, but I think that there is much more joy in being this age than any other age previously in my life, because we do have this sense of wisdom. You know, we we've experienced a lot so we we carry a lot of wisdom with us now at this point in our lives and we know what matters and we know what does not matter as much anymore, and so we can live joyfully. If we can figure out how to deal with the the things that you know the whole menopausal issue and the things that may make us feel less than at this point in our lives. It's just developing that confidence of who we are and then moving forward into this. This is the second act of our lives and embracing that and just taking it and saying, I'm going to own this period of my life. And I wake up every day actually and say, I'm choosing joy today. I am choosing my attitude today. I really have to be very intentional about that, because I know a lot of women who are pissed at the world. Like, and they just like, Oh, I hate my life.
Laura Wakefield:No, in fact, a lot of people, most people I think have a bit of an attitude about that.
Cindy Bell:Yeah. You have to, it's, you have, you have a choice every single day. Am I going to be joyful today or am I going to be just pissed off and miserable?
Laura Wakefield:Right. And you can't always choose the circumstances. Like you have physical things that are happening to our bodies. We do have things like divorces, I mean, these things are happening and they're hard and it's not to minimize that.
Cindy Bell:Yeah, and I'm not saying don't pretend that things aren't happening. It's don't deal with your issues. Yeah, there's a lot of things happening that are hard and challenging. And I'm not saying minimize that and pretend like, oh, it's great. But there's a way to embrace your challenges more productively. Because I just refuse... I refuse to stay stuck anymore. I refuse to stay down. I was married twice. I'm on my third marriage. Thank goodness I figured this out at age 50, right? But I married, you know, two other people before him that were very wrong for me. And I just stuck with it as long as I could. But I was miserable and I refuse to be miserable anymore in my life. Joy, you know, so, so much of this has to come from ourselves, our internal intentionality and the outside world's going to be what it's going to be. Our circumstances are still going to be there, but we have the power to, to change the lens with which we view the world.
Laura Wakefield:A hundred percent. And I think that's part of the power of being over 50 is we've been through enough that we can look back on our lives now and realize that so much of what we thought mattered didn't. And so much of what we thought we had to be or had to do or had to think was never true. And at 50, I think there is a little bit of a kind of what the 50 kind of attitude that comes up like, well, hey, I'm on the second act now. I'm going to do this differently now. And I love that freedom.
Cindy Bell:And the thing is, is that it's never too late. It is never too late to start your life over. It's never too late to make different decisions. You're never too old to do whatever you want to do. It's really, you got to change your mindset about this, that you are not too old and it's not too late.
Laura Wakefield:A hundred percent. Cindy, thank you so, so much for being my guest today. I always love talking to you, my friend.
Cindy Bell:We need to collaborrate more.
Laura Wakefield:I agree.
